Provisional Sinn Fein's View of Socialism

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IRELAND FREE 0 ESC PHOTO: DEREK SPIERS (IFL)

In the interview that Ruari O Bradaigh gave to your magazine 'Isis' he talks about PSF being both anti-imperialist on the one hand, and demacratic socialist' on the other.

Can you explain how you see 'democratic Very broadly, our analysis is that Ireland since partition has been functioning as two states. The state in the north - the Six Counties - has been a colonial state; the 26 Counties in the south have been a sort of neocolonial state.

Ireland has suffered because of imperialism. Our objective at the present time is to remove the British army from Ireland and get a declaration from the British government that nomically trom ireland. That is our first objective - British withdrawal.

Because of the artificial division of our country, we have a division within the working class — we have a division between the working class in the north and the working class in the south. To complicate matters further, in the north the working class is divided again between Catholic and Protestant.

It is only possible to build socialism after we have been able to unite the working class, and the cause which divides the working class is the British presence.

On the prospects of building socialism a lot will depend on the circumstances of British withdrawal, and the circumstances which exist both during British withdrawal and for a period after that.

First step • Our programme at the present time is maximum unity on the issues of 'Brits Out' and national independence. We regard 'Brits Out' and Irish unity as a first step towards a socialist republic.

We don't know how we will implement socialism, because we don't know the circumstances. But we believe that national independence without socialism is really meaningless.

With the EEC, the demands of capitalism when it comes out of this recession will be for a united Ireland. Capitalism would best be served by a united Ireland because you would have all the political problems out of the way.

But we see that socialism would be the only positive thing to fight for in Ireland.

Because • the war is lasting as long as it is, more and more people have become mobilised.

Because of the failures of capitalism in Ireland, the disaffection and disappointment, the fact that capitalism cannot deliver the goods, there are forces which can i be harnessed and organised.

I'm talking here about the unemployed in the major cities, the small farmers who are affected by EEC policies, the people who suffer because of the economic situation caused by capitalism.

These people can be organised; they should be encouraged to organise themselves under the leadership, or the encouragement at least, of the Republican movement.

In the struggle for socialism, the people who suffer most because of imperialist and capitalist policies will be our natural allies. The organisations that they form to defend their living standards will be the organisations that we will use to build socialism in Ireland.

When people organise to defend themselves, whether it is their standard of living, or their right to a living, those organisations are basically democratic, and that's what we mean when we talk about democratic socialism.

It will be a socialism built from the base up. How we actually get into the mechanics of making that work is another thing.

Of course you start out with an ideal, and you go along the road to achieving that ideal. It always happens that somewhere along the line part of your ideal doesn't come to pass. But we believe that it's important to have a target, a goal to work towards, and do the best we can on the road towards it.

Ultimate I your ideal is a 'democratic socialist' country, why is it that you don't propagandise for that at the same time as campaigning for 'Brits Out and Irish unity! Is it because you think that to do so would prevent you from building maximum unity on the question of 'Brits Out' and Irish unity?

It could be divisive in an Irish context, but through 'An Phoblacht/Republican News' we make no secret of the fact that we are for a socialist republic. Spokespersons of our organisation have always expressed the view that our ultimate aim is a democratic socialist republic.

We have to qualify that by saying a democratic socialist republic, because our political enemies will use cash and any means at their disposal to discredit our movement.

I'm thinking here particularly of people like Fianna Fail and others, who also claim to be republicans except that they don't implement republicanism.

We have to qualify exactly what we mean by socialism and democratic socialism so that we i't give our munition.

Since In trying to build a democratic socialist society, how do you think you would have to relate to workers in the 26 Counties who have undergone a very different experience from those in the north...

Unfortunately, because of the war in the Six Counties, because of the intensity of the war and the resources which were needed, most of the talent in our organisation went to supporting the war. The role of our organisation in the south has been to support the war in the Since about 1976, we have been going through a change. The people in the south now see their task as becoming more identified with trade union struggles, women's rights in the south (which is very important), and the struggle of small farmers.

In the past they have seen their role as supporting the struggle in the north, but they have realised for some time that that type of struggle alone will not be adequate to carry us from the stage of 'Brits Out' to the social struggle which will follow that.

I am sure that people like yourselves will realise that political work takes a lot of dedication. You don't see results immediately. But our movement in the south has moved towards more and more open trade union work and work in those other fields.

We realise that socialism can only be built through the unions, through the unemployed organisations insofar as they exist, and the other areas where people are attected by capitalism and imperialism in Ireland.

Ballot When you talk about democratic socialism, presumably you do not mean that it can come through the ballot box?

Socialism can never be established through the ballot box. Those who control the wealth will never let those who don't vote it out of their hands.

Parliament — which is not a workers' government - is only there to allow the capitalist class to go on being a capitalist class.

And when we say democratic socialism, we don't mean social democracy. We mean democratic socialism. We call it a decentralisation of power.

Federal

How does this tie in with the Sinn Fein programme for a Federal Ireland? Does that still apply? No. A federal Ireland is

KEVIN O'DONOGH Fein explains to IAN

possibly a thing which we can work towards. But when that plan was drawn up, in a sense we underestimated the strength of Orangeism.

We now feel that if we seriously tried to find a solution along federal lines, then we would be creating an Orange state in the north and institutionalising it.

We're not against Orangemen. But what we are against is the position of the Protestant working class as regards the Protestant capitalist class, and we realise that under a federal solution the Protestant bourgeoisie could still have that power over the Protestant working class, and we would not be creating conditions that would allow them to liberate themselves from capitalism.

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