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3,211 injuries, 43 amputatior 17 deaths; all in 12 months Sadd ROLL UP Cartoons from Labour Research pamphlet, "Youth Training'.

can complain to besides the MSC.

As well as that, most companies where there are trade unions are registered, because it's one of the first things a union will check on when a firm is unionised.

This means the factory at least has to be up to a certain standard. Small companies with only four or five are not always registered under the Factories Act, and are basically just cowboy firms such as the one my son Derek worked at.

How would you stop abuses on this scheme?

I wouldn't have any working in companies with less than eight people, because with eight people you have got to have a safety certificate.

That would be one safeguard.

Another would be to ensure it is a trade union firm, which more than likely would be registered under the Factories Act. As well as this, trade unions in factories often organise safety committees where the workers meet the management once a month to discuss any dangerous equipment or other hazards.

There are no safety committees in non-unionised firms. So unionisation is important.

However, as regards keeping an eye on the trainees, a lot of sonit know anything about the stewards at present schemes.

There should be training by the union to put them in the picture of what the YTS is, because it isn't a proper job, they don't get proper pay, so they can't be expected to do piecework or take risks for which they are not insured.

If there are any accidents fatalities the parents will have see to everything themselves.

Do you think the schemes are proper training?

No, I don't think so, because the employers won't give proper training to someone who is only at their company for twelve months.

They are just shifting unemployment of the 16-18 year old group into the 18 plus group.

They are just using 16-18 year olds as cheap labour.

Will the scheme be compulsory?

Well, first of all I am hostile to them being compulsory because 16 year olds are still under the jurisdiction of their parents, and a lot will have to do with what the parents tell them.

WORK EXPERIENCE

There is a high accident rate on these schemes. Between February 1982 and February 1983, there were 3,211 injuries, 43 amputations and 17 deaths:

Until I started this work I had no idea of these figures. A man in Scotland who got in touch with me thought that his son was the first one to die on a scheme.

Now that things, _ have been publicised parents are thinking more, and TV Eye told me that 60,000 had been taken off the schemes. But it parents retuse to send their kids onto a scheme, the kids will be penalised.

I've read in the press and heard on the Trades Council youth committee that it will be compulsory. It said that out of £15.50 dole money, they will have £6.70 knocked off, leaving them with around f9, which is atrocious.

A one-parent family, when their allowance goes up will get £10.50 for one child. So they'll be getting over a pound more for a kiddie say 12 months old than a young person 16 or 17 years old.

This is absolute blackmail to get them on a scheme. Many parents - particularly the unemployed - cannot afford to keep their kids with 40% of their dole money stopped and will be forced to send their son or daughter onto a scheme even if they are against them on safety grounds.

What are the wider effects of YTS?

Well, I have mentioned that these schemes are creating unemployment in the 18 plus bracket and providing 16 to 18 year olds for cheap labour.

I know of this first hand. One of my sons is 21 and he's never had a job: the schemes were't going when he first left school and I think it's doing the over-18 age group out of proper paid work.

The workforce in the next workforce the next inE RETURN • DOLE Francis ten or twelve years will all be labourers. The schemes will serve the function of doing away with apprenticeships. There were 23 proper training establishments throughout the country providing five-year courses on industrial training boards, there are now only six left.

Don't you think it's a pity the trade unions are not protecting apprenticeships for themselves?

Yes, but I think they're having a rough time with unemployment and anti-union laws. And I think Tebbit and company are trying to get the same control of the unions as they've got of YTS.

What would you like to see trade unions do?

I've been told that the TUC is supporting these schemes. It's the first time I've known of trade unions giving support to cheap Although I've not been heavily involved in trade unions I have been a trade unionist for 25 years. These schemes are designed to bring wages down.

Do you think Labour councils should become Managing Agents?

No, because if they become Managing Agents as they are doing in Sheffield, if there is any bother they are going to have to carry the can because it is like giving approval to the scheme. They'd argue that it is better to have Labour councils as Managing Agent rather than unscrupulous employers.

Well, they shouldn't have the schemes so big. In 1979-80 there were 182,000 people on MSC schemes of some sort. In 1982 there were 461,00 and up to They're getting to big to handle and the MSC is jumping at offers from local councils to be Managing Agents.

They are allowing the MSC pass the responsibilities local authorities.

The factory inspectors to Plumb's, where Derek worked, said that Plumb's wasn't the employer, the MSC was. The MSC said that they were not the employer - only the sponsor.

Whoever insures them is the employer - which is why the MSC won't insure them, since it would make them responsible for safety.

Will your case against Tebbit be a test case? • It can be called that because it's the first time it's ever been done in this country. Two million YOPs have been employed since the scheme started.

There have been 17 deaths.

And I'm sure there have been hundreds of serious accidents where those kids will never walk or throw a ball again.

No other parents have had a go at the MSC, it's the first try. Whatever the outcome, I think it will follow t': ^ example.

They must be told at the top that they must alter things and I'm serving these writs to show that they cannot put people at risk and expect to get away with it.

I want to see the youngsters registered as proper employees. They should be insured like any other worker, giving them sickness benefit, legal representation and finally the MSC will have to carry the can if they are killed or injured, because MSC will be the employer, which is the main thing.

They pay out £1850 for each placement: the employer gets £500 and the youth gets £1300. Surely if they.can afford £500 for the employer (which is supposed to be for paper work) then something could be used to insure the kids properly?

What compensation received?

I've had nothing apart from a death grant - which I had to fight for. I sent a letter off with the death certificate. I was led to believe that the grant was £30. I received no reply because I'd been busy with this work, I didn't bother pursuing it.

I rang them sometime after and they said that they had replied saying I wasn't entitled to anything.

Immediately I got on to the local press and radio.

It was in the paper next morning and a journalist phoned me later to say I would get the money but it would be f22.50 because Derek was under 19.

Social Security were paying because they said he had just been on he job scheme long enough to claim, which makes no difference, he'd still paid no stamp.

Social Security then phoned and said they were paying from my stamp, classing Derek as a child this shows that legally you have no right to death grants these schemes.

Since you've started this work what conclusions have you come to about society?

I think the schemes are a mess. They want to keep youth unemployment figures down.

I think unemployment will get worse. Some 18 year olds might never have a job. Kids get 11 years education and then they are put on the dole. It says something for this government. • My attitude has changed a lot towards government departments. I'm absolutely appalled at some things I've found out.

I always thought these departments could run things properly, but all they think of is money. STAFF occupying the Thornton View hospital, Bradford, have called a demonstration throught the town for Saturday, TIATTTA A A September 10.

A strong platform of local and national speakers - including NUPE and CoHSE General Secretaires Bickerstaffe and Williams - will speak to the concluding rally.

Meanwhile morale within the occupation itself has continued to strengthen - boosted if anything by two somewhat bizarre moves by management.

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